Etrange Overlord brings together the man known for creating the Disgaea series (Sohei Niikawa), the character artist from Re:Zero (Shinichiro Otsuka), and a wide range of other talent to create an upcoming action RPG with musical themes. We had the chance to play the opening hour of the game and shared our thoughts, but we wanted to find out more about the process behind it all. Luckily, the producer and writer Sohei Niikawa agreed to spend some time chatting with us about it.
Thank you for agreeing to this interview. I believe many of our readers will recognize you from your previous work with Nippon Ichi Software and particularly on the Disgaea series, but could you tell us a little about yourself?
I’m Sohei Niikawa. I’m the former president of Nippon Ichi Software (NIS). But three years ago, I separated off and formed my own company called SuperNiche. And under the name Roman Kitayama, I started writing light novels. And now three years later, I’ve come out as Sohei Niikawa, and now we’re presenting Etrange Overlord. And the whole background for how I came to be working on Etrange Overlord is sort of connected to all of that time I was working back at NIS as well.
Could you tell us a little about what your role as a producer is for Etranger Overlord?
To start, let me explain the style with which I approach game creation. I start with a concept and then we build a plan around it, and then the story or scenario, I’ll write that myself. And the reason why I mainly handle that aspect is because I can’t do programming, and I also can’t draw. So the way I approach game creation is always from a story perspective. The “producer” title along with “scenario writer” title kind of go hand in hand. So essentially with Etrange Overlord, it’s the same sort of situation where I’m the producer but where I develop the story and the concept. Everything from the initial concept phrase all the way through developing the story is what I handle and is how my portion of the producer role works.
For a producer role within the game industry, that’s probably a little bit unusual, I guess you might say.
The story of Etrange Overlord began as a web novel you published under the pen name “Roman Kitayama.” What was the journey like taking that original text and adapting it for a more interactive medium? Did you discover new things about your characters and world when translating the story from a web novel into a game?
To be honest, when I was developing the web novel, I was writing it already with the idea in mind that it would eventually be a game, so there wasn’t too much that really changed between the web novel and the game. But there are a lot of things that are really hard to get the idea across in a web novel, where you can do it a little bit better in a game, so some of those things, we were able to implement.
Were there any particular examples of things that you found difficult to get across in the novel that may have been easier to get across in the game?
Battles. It’s hard to write an effective battle sequence in a web novel.
Could you tell us a little more about the protagonist, Étrange? As the writer, what do you want players to feel about her journey as they progress through it?
The game starts right after she dies, and that stems really from being highly discriminated against. In the world where she’s from, having black hair and also being a dark arts user makes her an object of discrimination. But she has a really strong heart and will, so she’s not the kind of person who would let that affect her. And so after she dies and ends up going to Hell, most of the time your expectation would be that she’d think “Oh I should really change my ways” after ending up in Hell, but she’s like “Nope! I’m not doing anything different. I am me.”
So I’d be really happy if players, when they’re experiencing the game, they could look at her as an example of a strong woman who has her own will and own desires that she wants to fulfill and she’s not going to let anyone get in her way. And if while they’re playing it, players can feel that it’s admirable or that they’d like to be that way, that’d make me really happy. In a lot of ways, it’s really similar to me, where I quit Nippon Ichi Software and formed my own company with SuperNiche. In a way, it was like starting another life for myself, because I picked up a new pen name, and became Roman Kitayama, trying to build myself up from scratch again. So I feel a sense of deep empathy with her. So she and I were very much in synchronization when I was writing the web novel, having that attitude of “I’m not going to give up or let anything deter me”.
From playing the opening of the game, it’s very clear that the protagonist Étrange herself is a character with a very interesting personality, but we saw the introduction of a few other characters too. Aside from Étrange herself, do you have any favourites and what do you like about them?
I think I like Sweetia. There’s that deep sense of companionship where she just wants what’s best for Étrange and is willing to do whatever she needs to do to help her. I think of the two of them as having a relationship that runs deeper than just maid and master, and going beyond friendship as well, they have a deep, abiding respect for each other.
Were there any particular novels or other works that you felt were an inspiration for the story or characters of Etrange Overlord?
In Japan, you may be familiar already with the Villainess genre, so the story typically tends to be in that genre in that she comes from a noble family, she gets executed, and in her second life she thinks “now I’ve got to fix things”. So I use the same kind of story as a model, but there is one main point of difference, and that’s typically in these stories, this villainess character will come around and live their life differently or whatever it may be. But she doesn’t repent at all and she’s not going to change who she is for anyone. And I really like that about her.
What is it you think really got audiences engaged with your work on your past games, and is that something you’re trying to achieve with Etrange Overlord? Or are you opting for a significantly different draw this time around?
I think there are a few different reasons why people ended up liking my games in the past. I think one of those is that I tried not to stick to the same trends; I tried to find some other elements of something that maybe people haven’t experienced from me, and maybe incorporate that. But also, I think there’s a specific kind of character and story that I myself like as a creator, and I think there are other people out there who also like those kinds of characters and stories. So I kind of approach it from a place of there definitely being some percentage of people out there who like the things I like. So when I’m making something, I’m trying to make it for those people. So part of the reason why I named my company SuperNiche is because of that.
Are there any particular aspects that you think you and the audience both like that are repeated between your games?
One thing is the sense of humor. Also that the game mechanics are a little bit abnormal. I think those are the big throughlines between my games.
On the topic of audience engagement, have you found any differences in how the Japanese and Western audiences react to your past work? If so, was this considered either in your past titles or Etrange Overlord?
I am very well aware of gamers and their interests abroad, but when I go to make a game myself, I actually make a conscious effort not to really think about anything other than the kind of game I personally want to make. The reason I approach it that way is because I feel with most of the fans overseas, they want to see games from Japanese creators that are very Japanese in style. So, I think that when people are looking to me for a game, they’re not looking for the same thing they’d be looking for out of a AAA game or a game that was developed in the West.
I tend to think that most users across the world are really looking for something very specific from Japanese creators. It may not reach as broad of an audience as something AAA might, but I’m kind of okay with that, even having that smaller audience. Of course, that goes back to the company SuperNiche.
Given that Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure was an earlier musical RPG, did your experience from that title decades ago inform the development and production of Etrange Overlord?
Actually, there’s an interesting story behind that. I was one of the early employees on the ground level of Nippon Ichi Software when it was just getting started. And at the same time, the president of Gemdrops, one of the developers on this game, was also a brand new employee with me. And so, I was working on Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure in my second year with the company, and Kitao-san, who is the president of Gemdrops, also worked on Rhapsody. And then he turned right around as soon as he found out that I had left Nippon Ichi Software three years ago and said “Would you like to make a game?”, like “let’s do something together”. So it became almost inevitable that the musical element would be included, with the two of us coming back together on another project.
I was very happy that he reached out to me the way he did. I really felt the deep sense of friendship that we had for him to want to come and talk to me about doing something like that after nearly 30 years. So in that sense, I really want to make this game a success, for him as well.
In order to do that, we really need to make people aware of it. I kind of get the idea that these days, it’s not necessarily just the game itself or even the game’s story, but the background behind it, the people who are involved, and the human drama that really is interesting to people these days. Of course, it’s really hard to get across without being face-to-face like this.
You mentioned having making a game in mind when writing the original webnovel. Did you originally intend for it to be a musical game, or was this a later consideration when deciding to adapt it into a game? Do you feel that this enhances the telling of the story?
Actually, when I was writing the web novel, I didn’t intend for it to be a musical. But when we were working on the game with Gemdrops, the characters, in particular, the female characters, were very cute. And we started thinking about how Kitao-san worked with me on Rhapsody, and I just eventually started thinking, ‘We’ve got to make this a musical’ and so we just went for it.
Describing Etrange Overlord as a “Sushi Lane Musical Action Adventure” sounds incredibly unique. We got to experience a little of this earlier, but could you tell our readers a little about how the gameplay works and what makes it fun to play?
I don’t necessarily think that just because it has unique elements, that would make it fun, but it’s important for it to have unique elements and also for it to be fun as separate concepts. But making both happen at the same time is very difficult, and that’s the part we have to work on.
In the beginning, when we were thinking about gameplay mechanics, we had about three different approaches that we were considering. But the one that really stood out was that “sushi lane”, or as we’re calling it in English, a revolving lane. And part of the reason we went with it was that it seemed to offer all these unique opportunities for gameplay mechanics that we didn’t know that we could get through the other options. So when I think about that relationship between the customer and ourselves when we make a game, we’re asking the customer to give up a certain amount of their time and also their money to participate in that. So for me personally, I feel we have to provide value that goes beyond whatever hours and time investment they’re putting into it. And the team that I work with, they also have that same mindset. So even without me having to say anything, they’ll often start to include these other unique gameplay mechanics. And I think that’s the sign of a good team really. And that’s essentially what Etrange Overlord is. It’s built on the back of that strong foundation of a good team.
Were there any particular mechanics that you could mention that your team included that you thought were a good idea?
Actually, there are a lot of things that pop up like that in the design process, from large to small, and this is one of those elements. (Niikawa-san gestured to an image showing the mechanic in the screenshot above). The game wasn’t originally set up like this, where you would have their legs sticking up on defeat. But eventually, someone made the suggestion, like ‘wouldn’t it be fun if they plopped into the ground and you had to pull them out by their feet to revive them’ so we ended up going with it. When the team members are really invested and they’re having fun with the process, you get a lot of interesting ideas.
When we played the demo earlier, we found that we needed to maneuver a boss around to knock him into an obstacle before we could harm him. Is using the environment a frequent feature as the game progresses?
There are a lot of places where we utilized that kind of environmental combat. We’ve done a lot to try and make it so the battles don’t end up getting too repetitive.
I think when things start to get repetitive, people start to feel like the game is longer than it actually is. This game is probably about 25 hours long in total, but I’m thinking that in terms of how people actually feel about it, they’ll feel like it’s shorter than it really is.
We’ve heard that there’s a separate multiplayer mode. What sort of gameplay can we expect here, and why did you choose to add multiplayer?
Initially, we hadn’t planned to include it, but it just kind of happened naturally because as were were messing around and seeing that you have four characters that you can switch between in the story mode. Basically everyone in the team was like ‘Can’t we set this up, so we can all play four-player?’. But unfortunately, we didn’t really have the budget to do it on a full scale.
But Gemdrops were just of the opinion that ‘We want to do it, so we’re going to do it’. And then Broccoli (the Japanese publisher) said in agreement with them, ‘Okay yeah, you guys want to put it in, and we can see the possibility by including it’, so they responded ‘We can add a little more financial backing for that’.
So that’s another part of that overall development story that allowed us to include that multiplayer feature. But we have a high sales expectation in exchange.
It sounds like you’ve got quite a good relationship with Broccoli and Gemdrop, but have there been any challenges in ensuring that the game remains true to your original vision?
Not really. Broccoli actually put forward the money in the first place because they liked the web novel, and then Gemdrops agreed to work on the project knowing that it was my first game project outside of my previous work. And Broccoli and I had a good relationship from my time in NIS as well. So really, you could just call this a big project between friends.
How did you go about recruiting for the team for Etrange Overlord?
Basically, I got greedy, and tried to pick all the best people that I could think of. I didn’t really concede anything. And Gemdrop in my opinion are among the best developers in Japan right now. Shinichiro Otsuka is very famous for his character designs for Re:Zero, and with everything from all the music and voice actors, I’ve got everything I wanted crammed into this title. It’s kind of like having a hotpot that I’m just throwing things into.
The team working on Etrange Overlord has quite a lot of well-known talent, including Shinichiro Otsuka (Re:Zero, Conception series) for character design as you mentioned and Noriyasu Agematsu (Symphogear, Final Fantasy Brave Exvius) for the theme song. Is there anything about their specific styles that you feel is essential for Etrange Overlord?
Shinichiro Otsuka has a style that is very light and pleasing to the eye in a way that appeals to both men and women, and for Etrange Overlord in particular, I really wanted to make sure that women felt like this game was welcoming to them as well. He seemed to be an ideal choice because his designs appeal to everyone and not necessarily just a specific demographic.
Agematsu-san I worked with for a very long time when he was in Broccoli. There’s a game called Uta no Prince-sama that he did the music for and became very famous as a result. And essentially it just worked out that when we knew we were working with Broccoli on the project and we were starting to talk about who the composer would be, we were like ‘It’s got to be Agematsu-san’.
There was also a point of wanting to appeal to women gamers. The story is about a woman trying to do her best and get out there and do what she wants to do with her life, so I wanted to try to appeal to women who would be interested in playing a game like that, and we figured that whoever we selected for the music should be someone who could hone in on that demographic as well.
Hololive VTubers Tsunomaki Watame and Shirakami Fubuki both are voicing characters, with the former singing. What do you feel their performances bring to the characters they portray, and how was bringing them on board decided?
The first thing was just looking for someone who could sing. These VTubers were also interested in speaking roles within games as well. And I got the impression from them that they had possibilities for performance in certain roles within the game.
And when I went to talk to them about it, both of them expressed a lot of interest in actually portraying a video game character. Watame-san as well, she expressed that she had a dream of being able to perform the theme song for a video game, so we can work together and make both of our dreams come true.
Of course, I also just like her as a VTuber.
Is there any final message you’d like to give our readers?
It’s been three years since I left Nippon Ichi Software and in that time, some people may not have really known what happened to me and may not have even known if I was even alive or not, but I’m still here. And I want them to know that I’m still here and still making fun games and carrying on that legacy that has the DNA of the other games I’ve made in the past, like Rhapsody and Disgaea. That’s really what I’d like the readers to take away, that I’m still here, still making games and that I really hope they’ll play Etrange Overlord. Especially because I was able to put so much that I wanted to into it, and I really hope they’ll be able to have a good time with it.
If you enjoy Sohei Niikawa’s games, you can also check out Demon’s Night Fever, another upcoming title by produced and written by Niikawa-san.
Want to see more interviews? We’ve spoken with Ono Wasabi the CEO of Laplacian on industry challenges and TAKUMI, Kazushige Nojima, and Yoko Shimomura on their work for Reynatis. If you’re interested in localisation of games and novels, we’ve also got an interesting interview with Tristan K. Hill, a Japanese to English translator.
Thank you to Sohei Niikawa from SuperNiche for taking the time to speak with us, as well as NIS America and Reef Entertainment for interpreting the interview and inviting us to the event. As a disclaimer, Reef Entertainment provided a train ticket, refreshments, and access to the closed press event.
A gamer since the days of Amstrad and DOS and someone who has dabbled in a variety of professions. He enjoys a wide variety of genres, but has been focusing on visual novels and virtual reality in recent years. Head Editor of NookGaming. Follow him and the website on @NookSite.
